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Erol Gelenbe's avatar

While this suggestion is worthy of discussion, it may not address one of the primary roles of most UK degrees, which is to be an "immigration degree" meant (also) for the very large fraction of foreign undergraduate students who join and fund the UK university system. Those students, who are not often among the top students from their country (who can enter their best home universities) need support in basic knowledge, as well as in the language and culture of their "new country", the UK. The existing Bachelor's degrees are themselves barely adequate to meet this role, and should probably be lengthened by one year anyway.

Erol Gelenbe's avatar

Having been a professor in Belgium, France, the USA and the UK, and a student (and teaching assistant) in Turkey and the USA, I have a varied experience of higher education. The USA delivers 2-year Associate degrees mainly in Community Colleges, which educate less capable or less privileged students. Some State Universities also deliver Associate degrees. France has four ways (!!) to handle the first two years that we are talking about: (1) the "classes préparatoires aux grandes écoles" which are included within the leading Lycées in the country as a whole"post-baccalauréat" preparation for the élite (and less élite) "grandes écoles" that cover science, engineering, business schools and the humanities, (2) the Diplôme Universitaire d'Etudes Générales (DEUG), which is selective and covers the first two years of a broad preparation for an undergraduate degree in a university, (3) the DUT (Diplôme Universitaire de Technologies) which is taught in special schools (the IUTs) that deliver a two or three year terminal degree program in a technical area or in business (a little like the German Fachochschule degree) which is very much liked by French industry, (4) the BTS (Brevet de Technicien Supérieur) which is typically taught as a post-bac program in many High Schools (Lycée) and which is also appreciated by industry. Turkish higher education is organised into the Ön Lisans (first two years, which can be a terminal vocational degree for many students), and the Lisans, which requires a total (minimum) of 4 years of study including the Ön Lisans. In the USA, France, Belgium or Germany, the Master's degree (Maitrise or Diplôme d'Ingénieur in France) takes 5-6 years beyond high school. Thus, the UK's three-year BA/BSc and the 4-year MEng are both an advantage and a disadvantage regarding the type and quality of foreign students that the UK attracts. For instance, the Indian IIT graduates will typically not come to the UK for a master's degree, and they will try to head for the US or to continental Europe. The same is true of the BS graduates of the top Chinese Universities: I have had Tsinghua and Beijing University Master's and PhD students in France and the USA, but not in the UK (at Imperial College).

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