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Terry Young's avatar

Lovely, clear explanation. When considering organisations, I think in terms of agility v stability (instead of damping and sensitivity) as the key trade-off. I like SD, but I’m not sure it’s as all embracing as its exponents believe - other methods have their place, in my view, too. I’m trying to get my head around this and Jonathan Klein (Soton) and I are grappling with why and where the top end of systems engineering gives way to soft systems and social science.

This article crystallised part of this for me, something I had been puzzling over, which is that the long term structure also changes - sometimes in response to the feedback loops themselves - and this, SD models struggle to address.

Another thing is the failure of tekkie types to turn their insights into policy. Famously, just as Stafford Beer felt he was about to get the Chilean economy under control by throwing out yet about control loop, his champion, Allende, was overthrown. In the many recent obits and comments on Alan Greenspan’s tenure at the Fed, there is his repeated concern that his model of reality (and thus the need for more or fewer feedback mechanisms of greater or lesser strength) was faulty. The Times obit states: ‘In an interview with the Financial Times in 2013 when Greenspan published The Map and the Territory, a reflection on his changing approach in the light of the crisis, he spoke of the devastating impact of 2008 on everything he had stood for. “The whole period upset my view of how the world worked,” he said. “The models failed at a time when we needed them most … and the failure was uniform.”’

What I’d like to see next is you applying your 10+ rules to two or three crises this century (global financial, covid, energy, the PO scandal, universities…?) and see what sort of pattern emerges as your template is applied.

Thoughtful as well as serious. Thank you!

Peter Grindrod's avatar

Very timely. I think the obvious lack of understanding of dynamics, and especially of possible spontaneous acute loss of stability (as latent parameters move slowly, chronically, over hidden thresholds) is something that is not really considerd by various natiopnal authorities (who should know better).

Here is a recent sumary, and it includes the rather sad history of catastrophe theory, which was later reinvented as "path dependence" in Sante Fe.

P. Grindrod , Resilience, Tipping Points, and Hysteresis, Complexities, 2026 https://www.mdpi.com/3042-6448/2/2/10/pdf

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